Right and Wrong
I follow a very simple motto which perfectly and flawlessly describes my views towards everything. I live by this motto, and in my opinion, I need no other rules or norms to help me decide whether I think something is wrong or right.
My motto is:
Nothing is wrong as long as no one is harmed against their will.
Simple, yet extremely powerful, and applicable to life, sexuality and really everything.
As long as noone gets hurt against their will, you can do whatever you want. If you want to love someone who loves you back, and have sex with that someone and spend your life with that someone, do so. If you want to smear yourself in honey and roll in the grass a hot summer day just because you like the tickle of bees on your naked skin, then why not. If you’re a dendrophilia and really have a crush on that old oak in the back yard, why not rub yourself against it? Do you really like to lick the cows in your barn, then why not? Or, do you want to make a living out of having sex? Well, as long as you like it, I can see no reason why someone can forbid it, it’s your body. No one gets hurt. You may get some splinters from the tree, or stings from the bees, or silly cow-behind-bacteria on your tongue, but it’s your choice.
Some old fart once told me that my motto was vague and very irresponsible. That my motto makes me “passive” and that I find everything Ok. One of his examples were that my motto would make me think that it’s Ok to, for example, ban homosexuality. Don’t ask me how he reasoned, really, but banning something that doesn’t hurt anyone sounds awfully wrong to me. Though, his belief was apparently that I thought that the banning of homosexuality didn’t harm anyone. Well, yes I do believe it does. It takes away the freedom to love and live of many people. But not banning homosexuality wouldn’t hurt anyone. Not directly. Everyone would be able to choose the paths of their own lives.
Of course, one can always say that some are “hurt” by the fact that others live their lives the way they want to. That some get “hurt” because some people doesn’t fit into their fantasies of a perfect world. I say it’s their own problems that hurt them. If you want to live in an ever-changing world with as many lifestyles and sexualities and feelings as there are human beings, you have to learn that everyone is indeed different. Believing otherwise is only hurting yourself, and hurting yourself is just stupid unless you like that perticular sensation…
Sometimes, it’s a grey line though, the definition of “hurt”. What harms someone and what doesn’t? I would dare to say that in some cases, people aren’t harmed by certain actions but instead the victimization that the society projects upon them. A simple example; you get your pants pulled down in front of lots of people when you’re 5 years old. At that time, it might mean nothing to you. Why bother? However, as you grow up and is told by society that being naked in public is wrong, bad, dirty, shameful, you may think back at that memory and suddently feel bad about it. You’re indirectly harmed, not by the situation/action performed to you at that time itself, but by society telling you that you should be harmed, that you should be ashamed. Why do society do that?
Another example is my own sex debut. My first time was when I was about 7-8 years old, with a boy my age. It was on my initiative, and we were both consenting. Sure, we didn’t know everything there is to know about sex at that point, but we didn’t need to know much either. We were experimenting, learning, trying things, and had fun. We were both boys, no one could get pregnant and STDs were miles away. A while ago though, when I and a couple of friends were talking about sex and slipped into the subject of “legal ages” and someone mentioned that in Japan, the legal age of sex is 12 (for girls), I said that I didn’t find it that strange, and I told them openly about my sex debut. I figured I know these people, I can be honest with them. Then, an interesting thing happened – they looked at me, and started saying how traumatized I must have been, and how much it must’ve hurt me somehow, how wrong it must have felt. The most intruiging thing with it all was my own reaction to that – I actually suddently, 16 years after my first happy experiences, began thinking that yeah maybe it hurt me, maybe it’s damaged me somehow, and I felt a ashamed, a bit dirty. Those who were happy memories for me, suddently got questioned and my best friends started telling me that these memories and experiences were evil and ugly and dirty!
Luckily, I snapped out of it. No one is going to victimize me. I wasn’t a victim of anything! I had sex and I was a child. Apparently, that just can’t be positive in some people’s eyes. For me, those memories are some of the fondest and dearest memories I have.
It’s interesting – people seem more likely to conclude that I’m hurt by the experiences, that I am a victim, than they are to just ask me how I feel about it.
No one got hurt, but by trying to convince someone that a good feeling actually is bad and shameful is hurting someone. It’s not the actual action that is shameful, it’s you trying to convert good to bad that should really be ashamed, because it’s actually you who cause the pain.
Don’t hurt anyone. Think of what your actions may cause. But, using my motto, one could easily come to the conclusion that I have no problems with adults having sex with little children. Why? Well, an adult doesn’t have to actually harm the child. Small children wouldn’t know the difference of a standard lap-ride and an naked lap-ride where daddy has his tool between little one’s thighs, and would probably just have fun. No pain, just playing. All’s well? No. As I’ve just described, even though no pain or harm was done at that time, it is most likely that society’s norms and standards will teach that child that what happened was very wrong, very shameful and very damaging. Thus, even if the action itself wasn’t harming the child directly, it did through the invervention of our lovely society.
Before anyone even thinks the thought; of course I’m aware of rape of children and nonconsentual rape of adults and animals, and if you’ve understood anything of what I’ve written here, you’d know I’m against it.
Partly continued in the post “Sex before age of 15“.
Images: Po Ju (manga), personal photo
Hi.
I’ve a question and some thoughts for you. No flaming. I’ve a hard time to come to terms with the concept that the only problem with your example between a child and a grown up “using his tool”, as you put it, would be societys view on the matter.
Consent is a key word in this. And I think that this is not possible at all between a child and a grown-up. The sexuality of a child is not evolved, and the concept of sexuality, although present according to Freud (namedropping is the shit), is very different from someone who has grown to the legal age.
Two children who experiment and has sex (I think the word sex is problematic, since it’s really just to different) is a different matter. Since both are on the same level, and noone has the power that comes with age to manipulate and trick the other part to satisfy his/her own lust, thereby depriving the child of their innocence.
Actually, in that perticular case it can be just that simple. This is a very controversial subject but I’ll give it a shot anyhow: Say the kid is 1-2 years old. There are yet no feelings of shame concerning nudity, and as with every child it likes being fondled and tickled. In the example, the whole act would be just like fondling and playing, with the difference that the man uses his “tool” to fondle with.
Consent is key, I agree totally. But, for the two individuals, there are two different activities. For the man, it’s sex. For the baby, it’s fondling. The man is consenting to sex, and the child is consenting to fondling, so to speak. For the child, it’s never about sex, so there isn’t anything to consent in. At that time.
Later on in her life, when she learns what it all meant relative to her feelings and values learned from society, the act will retroactively become about sex. Then it’s true, that she couldn’t actively consent.
Another thing that I find interesting is the choice of words we use: “innocence”
That would mean that sex is something you’d be “guilty” of, that it is shameful. In Sweden (as you know) we call virginity “oskuld” which means more or less “not yet guilty”. Guilty of what? The only thing I can think of is some religious sin (christian probably). However, for us non-christians, why does sex still mean “guilty”?
Hi,
Nice to read a thought-provoking post.
I agree with most of your opinions. I guess shame is a necessary feeling to be able to regret some of our actions, but there are far too much shame in our society. And some people tend to take advantage of it to gain control and power. We should really strive to shrink the amount of shame that goes around, and focus on being ourselves, be good, not harm anyone else – exactly your motto. Then there should be no reason for shame.
That your sexual joy with another boy in childhood should have traumatized you in any way is absolute bullshit. As long as nobody got hurt.
But relationships between grown-ups and children are more complicated. The actual sexual experience might not be very harmful, but I believe the emotional differences can cause a lot of anxiety and inner conflict in the child. A child will have a complete different set of emotions and expectations regarding the relationship than the grow-up. And will measure its own value against the grown-ups behaviour to a dangerous extent. Just the risk of hurting a very fragile little human being should keep every adult far away from engaging in sexual activities with children. And what is a grown up seeking when having a sexual relationship with a minor? Why does it seem natural to them? To me that is very difficult to understand. But I think you are right when you pinpoint the reactions of our beautiful society. I agree that traumatizing in retrospect is highly possible, and that it can be more hurtful and destroying than the actual episode itself. We should be very, very careful in how we handle children (and grownups), not to victimize them. I recently read a very good book about much of the things you are writing about. It was a very good read, and it made me a bit wiser. I really recommend you to read it!
Here it is http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/265655/Embrace/Product.html
Keep writing, follow your motto and take care
Dear Slave To Karma;
You say that “As long as no one gets hurt”. I must point out that what may seem normal and rational to some folks can deeply offend others. Just a tiny example here and I’m sure you’ve already heard of this. In America we don’t burp at the dinner table. (We’ll, most of us any way). In Japan it is very much a compliment to the Chef. Outside of very few exceptions prostitution is illegal in America. Again in Japan Geisha Girls, The best of the best prostitutes, are considered a sign of great success and even the wives are proud of their husbands when they have reached this lofty income level. In American Native Culture if you don’t accept the gift offered to you, no matter how crappy it may seem to you the giver will become deeply offended.
My point here is you can’t possibly know what is going or not going to hurt someone all the time. You may not do it deliberately but that doesn’t matter. The other party will be hurt just the same.
This is why we have laws! To at least try and make some sense out of living with each other and protect us from those who refuse to conform. If we don’t do this our society will melt on down into anarchy.
Now, about Christianity. Boy brother do you have your ‘facts’ all screwed up. God gave us sex as a gift to be enjoyed. I don’t know about you but for me it’s the best thing on earth. Thank You God! Sure, we do things he doesn’t approve of but guess what, we all do things he doesn’t approve of. Does this mean he is going to stop loving us? Of course not! I would like to strongly urge you to read the Bible before you point your finger at it again. Read it slowly and try to understand what is really being said. It really is “The Greatest Story Ever Told!”
And finally just to blow you away, yes, I am zoo! But God loves me anyway!
Well many things can certainly offend others, like… homosexuality, or free speech, etc. But I personally don’t care much if someone is offended indirectly by something I do. If someone is offended directly; that is, if something I do directly involves someone else that is offended or hurt, then I care.
And laws aren’t really doing a good job if their purpose is what you’re describing. Laws are usually rather absolute, black and white that’s supposed to regulate humans which aren’t black and white, so somewhere it’s bound to offend or hurt people just as much as if they were’t there at all. But I never claimed that laws are unnecessary.
And I don’t really need to have read the bible to know that our society’s thoughts of shame are inherited from Christian norms, or other religious norms for that matter.
And lastly – you can claim that your God gave you whatever, really, but since I’m not a religious Christian… I just personally feel you’re talking jibberish. It’s like me saying “God gave us all a head just so that we could bash it into walls!!!” and then think everyone automatically would agree.
Sorry for any typos, I’m on a short break from work.
I had sex when I was 6-7years old. I licked a girl in the forest at kindergarden and she “pulled” my penis. Without ejaculation of course. And when I was about 8y.o me and my best friend started to play with our penises in the shower when no one else was around. I remember the feeling, it was joyful, happiness, it tickled in me. Thought I really was alone…
[...] and learns how much of a victim it really was (I’ve mentioned the victimization by society in this post, when talking about my own sex debut). An animal doesn’t learn things like these, they simply [...]
[...] that’ll be nice. A perfect world. Anyhow, this is a small reference to my post about “Right and Wrong“, where I mentioned my sex debut at 7-8 years of age. One that I had full control of and [...]
[...] what this blog post is about. I’m against active pedophilia, as you would know if you read my Right and Wrong post. And also, I have recently been claimed to state that I want to change the “legal age of [...]
I’m pretty open minded and I agree with your philosophy to a ceartain extent. Like zoophilia for example. I don’t condemn it but I don’t support it either…but if I was in Japan and saw a man engaging in sexual activity with a child of the age of 13, whether consent is given or not, I am probably going to kill that man. Mabe my western society made me that way, but it’s ingrained in my nature and I just can’t let myself make that leap of accepting such things. It is physicaly impossible for my mind to ever condone a man fondeling a child with his “tool” even if the child doesn’t fully realize what is going on. No matter your motto, man needs to be responsible over his own actions and over his children. At least thats my personal feeling about it. I couldn’t live with myself feeling any other way.
I hear you. And as I said, in the case of a man and a child, it will most probably lead to damage later on (indirectly, by learning our norms, morals, values and by victimization) even though the damage didn’t occur at the time of the actual event. An adult should know these factors well, and thus have a responsibility, naturally. However – and this is the weird part – it doesn’t have to be the “perpetrator” that inflicts the damage at all, but all the rest of us, teaching the child that the event that took place was wrong and hurtful, though it wasn’t at the time (how does that make sense?)
I can follow the logic, but there is a large amount a discomfort to it. I suppose one could say thats just due to the imprinting of those social norms from child hood. When I was 10-11 years of age I had a sexual experiance with a girl my age at the time. The only reason we never went through with the act was because I had been taught better and backed out in the end.
Our social norms may be the thing that makes something harmful when it may have no intrinsic harm in it, but I would like to think that there is something within human nature that isn’t shaped by our social norms that tells us that, “this is going to far,” or “this is too extreame.”